Is the Bible important?

[touchstone]

How important to you the WORD of GOD?

Have you ever looked into it? Or When was the last time you've read the Bible?

[MHTS]

I hate to break the importance of this thread, but this topic is too broad to start with. For Christians, the Bible is the ultimate weapon, it is the foundation, it is the cornerstone, and it is the post where Christianity depends and relies on.

But what sad is to discern if, do we have the right Bible or we have the 'incomplete' or 'added' Bible?

For centuries, the Bible has been translated to different translations and versions. Through my studies of the Word of God, from the Latin Vulgate to the Greek manuscripts; there had been so many diverse translations of the Bible. This is not to spoil the power of this thread, but just want to say this: Christians, beware of what Bible translations you are using.

As approved, the only "Authorized" version is the AV1611. I will not expand this anymore, I would be willing to discuss in private if needed more info.

Overall, for Christians, the BIBLE is the WORD of GOD. That powerful, that holy, that inspired...

just my two cents...

[juVans]

Question:

Is the Bible a book handed by God to men ? or is the Bible hammered by men and dubbed it as the word of God?


8O

[MHTS]

Question:

Is the Bible a book handed by God to men ? or is the Bible hammered by men and dubbed it as the word of God?


8O

The Bible, as Christians believed, is a book "written by the inspiration of God.." Diay ilokano nga translation na, kunana, "impaltiing ti Diyos kadakuada"...

Those writers (or God-inspired writers) who wrote them, did not just wrote them from their own understanding, it was given to them by God. Of course, we are not going to argue that this is impossible. After all, with God nothing is impossible.

If we believe God created everything, can he not make a way to tell what He wants us to know through writing?

There's a phrase in the Bible that says: "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away." Can anyone tell me a book who has been written the ancient times that still exist to this day? (Not to mention that the Bible was banned and burned many times in history.)

[SuperGlow]

Question:

Is the Bible a book handed by God to men ? or is the Bible hammered by men and dubbed it as the word of God?


8O

The Bible, as Christians believed, is a book "written by the inspiration of God.." Diay ilokano nga translation na, kunana, "impaltiing ti Diyos kadakuada"...

Those writers (or God-inspired writers) who wrote them, did not just wrote them from their own understanding, it was given to them by God. Of course, we are not going to argue that this is impossible. After all, with God nothing is impossible.

If we believe God created everything, can he not make a way to tell what He wants us to know through writing?

There's a phrase in the Bible that says: "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away." Can anyone tell me a book who has been written the ancient times that still exist to this day? (Not to mention that the Bible was banned and burned many times in history.)


AMEN APO LAKAY

[daguerrson]

As far as Judaism and Christianity are concerned, the Bible is important. To Christians - Catholics or Protestants, it is the foundation of all their doctrines.

[BB-M]

Is it important?
Well, our copy of the Bible has the best place in the house.

Honestly though, I don't read it that often.

[juVans]

The Bible, as Christians believed, is a book "written by the inspiration of God.." Diay ilokano nga translation na, kunana, "impaltiing ti Diyos kadakuada"...

Those writers (or God-inspired writers) who wrote them, did not just wrote them from their own understanding, it was given to them by God. Of course, we are not going to argue that this is impossible. After all, with God nothing is impossible.


That?s exactly what the Bible says to you (or us). But there are Books considered by many as the word of God. Our Muslim brothers admit that their book, the Koran, is God?s word. Mormons say their doctrine is the TRUE words of God, and the rest are by-product of men. The Hindus claims that their book, the Vedas, is the source of truth ? the word of God. These ANCIENT WRITINGS are scattered all over the globe and tell us different belief, stories, and teachings, or simply known as Words of God.

How can we be sure that these texts are Words of God? Why so many manuscripts? What are the purposes of these books? Impaltiing ngata ni Apo a Namarsua dayta bradaH?

Thousand years ago, primitive men (Jew, Arabs, etc.) claim that they spoke to Him, and they were used as his instrument to spread the message of God. Not just in the olden days, even now in modern times, some insist that they spoke to God. Bro. Eddie Villanueva , founder and leader of the Jesus is Lord Movement, for example, did run for the Philippine Presidency in 2004 because God told him he is the chosen one, the next President to govern our country. But what happen? He lost.

What I am saying is: if you investigate and study the background on how each of these ancient texts before they came to life, you will convince yourself that these are not Words of God, but words of men who pretend that they knew God.

[juVans]

If we believe God created everything, can he not make a way to tell what He wants us to know through writing?


Good question.

BUT

My counter question is:

If God created EVERYTHING, does it also mean that he CREATED evil? That he created numerous ?word of God? to confuse and mislead us?

If he is God, having all the intelligence and power, can he not find a solution to expunge those fake books so us people will be reading only the REAL life's manual. I believe he can?and that is not impossible for God to do.


:wink:

[juVans]

There's a phrase in the Bible that says: "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away."


Hmmm...the Bible says heaven will pass away. I thought that the Bible says that saved souls would go to the kingdom of God, which is called Heaven. If heaven (and earth) eventually passes away, where else these saved souls go?

:?

[MHTS]

juVans, bradah, everything you said are all good points, hence, I will not argue with those. But I would like to answer your questions and some of your 'personal' (if not, scientific or secular) ideas.

I start with the question about GOD. Did he create Evil? I am not saying straight from my mouth, but we know that God created human as the highest form of ruler over all creations, thus, giving Man the power to be almost like God, a little lower than the angels. He created angels, too. Lucifer, being the top one and a little lower than God. This implies that God gave men and angels almost all characteristics of God. In fact, God created "men" in His own image. What else can we say that God gave to man and to the angels? Heart and brain. Brain to discern what to choose, and a heart to desire what to choose.

God created "good" and "bad". Of course, good would be undefined if bad is non-existent. God knows all, but He created angels and man to follow what their hearts and mind dictates them, hence, we are created as such. What did the Angel do? What did the man do? We all know the story (from the Bible).

God created this situation - it is just for us to choose which side we want to be in.


What about the BIBLE.

One quick questions bradah. Do you believe in the BIBLE as the Word of GOD?

If NOT - will end this conversation about the Bible, because you will not believe anything I will say. You must have Faith first before you accept we have to talked about it. Much like when people talk to me about Evolution (of Men), which I do not believe in, and my mind will always negate what they would share.

If YES - I do not have to answer your questions. It's all inside.

If MAYBE - this is not an option... :P

[zachzech]

apo juvans, i can see you are such an intelligent person...but have you read the bible? i suggest you get yourself into a bible study and seek answers to your questions. we would like to answer them but it is quite dangerous for us to just spew words because i for one wouldnt want to say the wrong things about the Word. I couldnt answer your questions as i myself dont know that much.. But this i am sure, I fear the Lord and the Bible says that fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge. I hope that in time, the holy spirit will reveal to you the answers that will satisfy you. God bless kabsat.

[MHTS]

Lastly, I'd like to comment on the validity of the manuscripts (the Bible - as the 'acclaimed' Word of God). When I studied the origins and how these manuscripts started, and how they were put together, I studied it from the 'atheist' perspective.

I began to debate with people, research more of its origins and tried to find flaws. I tried to find one single vulnerability and exploit it big time. I tried to read its contents and tried to read other 'atheist' points of view about it.

As I began reading the Bible, it just amazed me how sixty-six different books and different writers from different walks of life and different descendants and time have the same point.

I cannot answer all these questions about the Bible myself. But one thing that answered all my questions, clarifications, arguments, reasonings, and expectations - it was my FAITH...


If my answer is not sufficient, ladies and gentlemen.... my Faith is sufficient for me (and for my family)....

You are all entitled to your own understanding and I RESPECT YOU for that!

[juVans]

God created "good" and "bad".

Huh!?

As the Bible says: ?I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].? (Isaiah 45:7)

Your Bible teaches you about good morals, but at the same time it promotes chaos and troubles. That?s not a characteristic of loving God. Don?t tell me that he is suffering of dual personality. No wonder, why a double-edge sword when it cuts, it really hurts.

If God really LOVES us, he can eradicate all the bad roots that thrive in our surroundings just for us to exist/dwell in a serene life.

My final answer: God can?t be the source of evil because he is the epitome of good. That is why I don?t believe in God who create situation like curse people, then in order for them to be cured is demand them to give offerings.

:wink:

[juVans]

God knows all, but He created angels and man to follow what their hearts and mind dictates them, hence, we are created as such. What did the Angel do? What did the man do? We all know the story (from the Bible).




bradaH, let us say I work into a car manufacturing company. My duty is to create and oversee the design of our product. If this car that I made were able to travel from point A to point B (or to any point of Luzon, hehe), and vice versa, then I can say that my design?s is okay. After 10 years, the sedan that I created could no longer starts its engine, and worst, it could not go back to its original state. Meaning, there was something wrong with this car. Since I?m human, I was not aware that my creation would fail. In other words, when I was building my car, I fail to predict the defect of my design.

If GOD could FORETELL (which you said that He KNOWS all) the future, then he would have seen that his creation would disobey his diktat. That way, he could have prevented the falling angels not to rebel against him. So it would make sense that if he diagnosed the problem right from the start, then his creation would have been flawless. So it would make sense that these angels could have not violated God, and the Devil would not be born, right?

I guess, God did not see it coming.


:o

[juVans]

Do you believe in the BIBLE as the Word of GOD?

Before answering your question bradaH, allow me to define what does the Word of God means first.

Every religion often used the ?Word of God?, a corpus of doctrines, which means that God used his chosen people to convey his messages and later transliterated his words in what is known as scripture. But since religion are man-made, I want submit my self to be fooled such words like that.

Now, if God LITERALLY delivered the Bible directly into my mailbox, then I can admit that it is the Word of God.

But when these words travels through the mouth of men and passes to another it becomes different. The Book ITSELF even acknowledged that men are LIAR. So why believe a book written by primitive men whose tongue lies?

Accepting the Bible, as the truth is an indirect admission that other books (Koran, Vedas, Book of Mormons) are false. But to answer your query, I say I don?t.

Moreover, not believing in the bible does not necessarily mean that I do not believe God. It only means that I do not agree or subscribe with Christian?s perspective on who God is, or any book that hails they are the words of God.

And finally, even we hold different beliefs, and trudge on different paths, I believed that one day we will be heading to one END.

:wink:

[Leona]

Is it important?
Well, our copy of the Bible has the best place in the house.

Honestly though, I don't read it that often.

I find you very honest, BBM. I like it. :lol: :lol:

[juVans]

apo juvans, i can see you are such an intelligent person...but have you read the bible? i suggest you get yourself into a bible study and seek answers to your questions. we would like to answer them but it is quite dangerous for us to just spew words because i for one wouldnt want to say the wrong things about the Word. I couldnt answer your questions as i myself dont know that much.. But this i am sure, I fear the Lord and the Bible says that fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge. I hope that in time, the holy spirit will reveal to you the answers that will satisfy you. God bless kabsat.


Have I read the Bible? Yes, I have read it.

You know what apo Zach, I have a Christian friend that always invites me to join in their Bible study. I did attend once, and that was the last time.

Anyway, I suggest, don?t just do Bible study. Instead, STUDY the birth of the Bible. Discover whose the REAL author. For example, according to Biblical scholars, not even a mince of evidence that suggests that Moses wrote the very first five books of the Old Testament. Another example, the so-called Gospels in the New Testament were written by third-party narration, not the Gospel writers. Also, learn the history of transmission. You?ll find out a lot of mistakes and corruptions.

Don?t be content reading the surface (or the contents) but dig deeper and unearth every single layer to reveal what it is truly made of. And don?t just limit yourself with one Book, look around, consider the whole body of ancient literature, and you?ll see another texts professing the divine words of God. So after a thorough study, you?ll find out that the Bible is full of errors and not as sacred as your bible-thumping Preachers say to you.

God has nothing to fear because he has everything on his possession. Our mind is voluntary God-given. He gave us this cognitive skill to determine what is our role on this world. If we use this for the goodness of mankind, we will reap good consequences. But if we use it for spreading bad, I?m sure we will harvest bad consequences. Certainly, he need not worry because he is GOD. Only Pres. GMA is afraid of losing her throne. Again, we are God?s creation and can be recalled whenever he wants to.

And thank you for mentioning me as intelligent but sad to say I am not intelligent. I?m just a simple guy using my common sense?willing to listen, and eager to learn the unknown or whatever is new to me. And apo Zach, you are smart, too. God bless met kabsat.


:wink:

[juVans]

Faith is a belief that is something unproven.

But what is FAITH if it is not accompanied with good works?

Well, if faith is unproven, then the same coin of FAITH I shared with the Hindus that cows are none other than God embodied and present no evidence to my claim.



:?

[zachzech]

James 2
Faith and Deeds (NIV Version)
14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.

19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that?and shudder.

20You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[a]? 21Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend.


BUT

Ephesians 2:8-9

8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith?and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God? 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

[zachzech]

oopps di ko nabasa the above..di pala nagload tong inol ng mabuti... well kabsat juvans, ika nga ni manong MHTS, if you dont believe then well all explanations stops there. we are all free thinkers anyway. and as mhts said, my faith is enough for me too. and i will be justified by the works i do through my faith. i have established in myself long ago where science and faith begins and ends. the perceived and unperceived by the normal senses. that is enough. i wish you well.

[touchstone]

MHTS and JUVANS.

First, I will not argue with all those points you have believed. I will only give my point of view. I didn?t create this thread to build disputes.

Thank you for all the points you?ve shared. I can see that you are quick to answer. However, I just want to make it clear according to MHTS point of view of regarding the God created "good" and "bad".

I guess juvans is puzzled and confused of what you've mentioned. In creation, God made all things GOOD. He did not make some things good and some things bad. God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. (Gen 1:31) So God created only good things, but some of them have been spoiled. That's even true about Satan. He's just a created being ? an angel who was made good but went bad. To be evil at all, Satan needs good things that he can abuse, things like intelligence, power, and will. Those good things come from God.



God created "good" and "bad".

Huh!?

As the Bible says: ?I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].? (Isaiah 45:7)

:wink: Isaiah 45:7 - What does it mean? The word translated "evil" here is the Hebrew word ra'. A better translation in modern English is "calamity" or "disaster" or "woe," as this word is translated in this verse in more recent translations. 'Evil,' as used here, refers to evil of a physical nature (storms), not moral evil."

Please refer to http://www.carm.org/diff/Isa_45_7.htm

[juVans]

I guess juvans is puzzled and confused of what you've mentioned. In creation, God made all things GOOD. He did not make some things good and some things bad. God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. (Gen 1:31) So God created only good things, but some of them have been spoiled. That's even true about Satan. He's just a created being ? an angel who was made good but went bad. To be evil at all, Satan needs good things that he can abuse, things like intelligence, power, and will. Those good things come from God.



A created angel who went bad?

And you also said: ?God made ALL THINGS GOOD.?

Wow! It really catches my attention!

I?ll pose these questions to you: If God creates everything GOOD, then why Satan turned BAD? What causes the blemish of God?s creation? Was there another higher being that influenced Satan to move away from God? Was God cleverness not adequate to determine that his creation would someday become BAD?

God SAW what he made but maybe he did not see what would be the future of what he had made. Am I right?

Need your answer sis to clear my blurry mind, and please join the pieces altogether to solve the puzzle that has been confusing me.

:roll:

[juVans]

Isaiah 45:7 - What does it mean? The word translated "evil" here is the Hebrew word ra'. A better translation in modern English is "calamity" or "disaster" or "woe," as this word is translated in this verse in more recent translations. 'Evil,' as used here, refers to evil of a physical nature (storms), not moral evil."



So God did not create evil (moral evil), but he created CALAMITY (which is also an evil), right?

Calamity is a disaster. It is a tragedy; an event that brings horrible loss or misfortune.

Are you happy when typhoon ?Labuyo? could have swept away your house, and destroy all your crops? Are you smiling when you heard that your relatives working in Pakistan depart this life due to earthquake? Don?t you feel remorse about the families who lose their siblings and parents, which were killed from a killer tsunami last year? And what can you say about to hurricane ?Katrina? that almost immerse the entire city of New Orleans causing people to be homeless and jobless?

What about those who survive? Favoritism?

Sis, a loving God can?t create CALAMITIES (a tragedy) to teach and discipline us in order for him to win us back. That is a wrong way to send a good message for his miniature likeness of Him. And God is not inane to command typhoons and earthquake to annihilate lives and belongings.

Ano, pera o bayong?

And I checked the site you provided, none was said at all.

:cry:

[juVans]

oopps di ko nabasa the above..di pala nagload tong inol ng mabuti... well kabsat juvans, ika nga ni manong MHTS, if you dont believe then well all explanations stops there. we are all free thinkers anyway. and as mhts said, my faith is enough for me too. and i will be justified by the works i do through my faith. i have established in myself long ago where science and faith begins and ends. the perceived and unperceived by the normal senses. that is enough. i wish you well.

This is not about believing and convincing the unbelievers. This is about sharing different points of view.

But anyway, I don't need to lengthen my reply. Okey. Put it in the freezer.

:wink:

[touchstone]

Need your answer sis to clear my blurry mind, and please join the pieces altogether to solve the puzzle that has been confusing me. :roll:

ading juvans ko, i can see that you are an intellectual and logical person, I?m not here to make you understand my point of view. First of all I am not God juvans, truthfully I cannot answer all your questions, because I am not God. This is revealed! It is not explained! If I am God I will let you bow down to me now. Unless you know the answer and I will bow down to you as my God. I can't explicate and I can't decipher all the pieces that have strewn here in this thread. It seems you have read the Bible. You just need faith.

Faith is a belief that is something unproven.


Well that?s the mystery of our faith ading ko, whether you believe it or not. It is a reveled truth.

By the way, thank you for sharing your thoughts and ideas. Bottom line, the Bible is not meant to be explained. But it has to be revealed to you so you can understand, and you do this by faith. So this means you must believe first in God by faith and then now you will understand. All you really have to do is to believe and have faith. The more you want to understand the Lord and have answers to all your questions, it would continually make you question. Believe and have faith. If you believe in God you must also believe in His Word, the Bible.

SO IF YOU REALLY BELIEVE AND HAVE FAITH IN GOD YOU WOULD NOT HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ANYMORE. PERIOD! THE LORD BLESS YOU MORE!

[juVans]

^

Sis,

"Much ado about nothing" - Shakespeare.

Iti ilokano, "pasig met a tulang, awan lasag na."

:P

[SuperGlow]

^

Very interesting JuVans...

[touchstone]

The Bible is God's loveletter for you and for me, so if you'll try to read and meditate on it , surely you will be in-love with HIM. And you will love Him more than anyone else. AMEN!

[Myrna]

..the Bible is so important to me and my family....my husband and I don't start our day without reading the Bible...the Bible is our strenght, and it aided us on how to cope up with anything that we encounter everyday....

[touchstone]

..the Bible is so important to me and my family....my husband and I don't start our day without reading the Bible...the Bible is our strenght, and it aided us on how to cope up with anything that we encounter everyday....

can't agree more mg Myrna..PREACH IT!
THE BIBLE IS OUR DAILY BREAD.OUR SPIRITUAL FOOD.

[tonton]

A created angel who went bad?

And you also said: ?God made ALL THINGS GOOD.?

Wow! It really catches my attention!

I?ll pose these questions to you: If God creates everything GOOD, then why Satan turned BAD? What causes the blemish of God?s creation? Was there another higher being that influenced Satan to move away from God? Was God cleverness not adequate to determine that his creation would someday become BAD?

God SAW what he made but maybe he did not see what would be the future of what he had made. Am I right?

Need your answer sis to clear my blurry mind, and please join the pieces altogether to solve the puzzle that has been confusing me.

:roll:

I'll try to answer that in anyway I can. We were given a free will to choose and Lucifer which was the angel choose the dark side. How he got to know light and darkness is something I don't know yet.
Like you and me we can choose light or darkness. We are tempted. When an indecent image pops out in our e-mail or television. You can choose whether to fall on that temptation or not.
I hope that helps. God bless . . .

[juVans]

^

I appreciate your effort of replying, however, I am not enlightened with your illumination. I am confused because your words are muddled rather than emphasized.

Okay, here?s a simple question for you to think over: ?Why don?t you tell me HOW you?ve come to a conclusion that Lucifer chooses evil if he is unaware of it in the first place??

If you were to take an educated guess, what do you think it might be?



(Hint: The answer can be found in the Bible, you know. Get a copy of the book and read it from the Pentateuch to the last pages of Apostle Paul?s Revelation.)


8)

[touchstone]

^

I appreciate your effort of replying, however, I am not enlightened with your illumination. I am confused because your words are muddled rather than emphasized.

Okay, here?s a simple question for you to think over: ?Why don?t you tell me HOW you?ve come to a conclusion that Lucifer chooses evil if he is unaware of it in the first place??

If you were to take an educated guess, what do you think it might be?



(Hint: The answer can be found in the Bible, you know. Get a copy of the book and read it from the Pentateuch to the last pages of Apostle Paul?s Revelation.)


8)

hi juvans..why don't you just give us the answer and share to us..I appreciate it ..thanks kabsat!

[juVans]

^

You're an avid reader of the Bible, an evangelist too, you're supposed to know the answer, right? Right manang Touch?


:wink:

[touchstone]

^

You're an avid reader of the Bible, an evangelist too, you're supposed to know the answer, right? Right manang Touch?


:wink:

you're right ading..but i wanna hear from you also.Is that okay?

[Myrna]

^

You're an avid reader of the Bible, an evangelist too, you're supposed to know the answer, right? Right manang Touch?


:wink:

you're right ading..but i wanna hear from you also.Is that okay?Hmmmmmmm..... as anak touch said....ading juvans...please enlighten us :)

[gemi]

^

You're an avid reader of the Bible, an evangelist too, you're supposed to know the answer, right? Right manang Touch?


:wink:

you're right ading..but i wanna hear from you also.Is that okay?Hmmmmmmm..... as anak touch said....ading juvans...please enlighten us :)
wen ngamin juvans, apay ngamin nga dimo payla ibaga? enlighten us please...

[touchstone]

^

You're an avid reader of the Bible, an evangelist too, you're supposed to know the answer, right? Right manang Touch?


:wink:

you're right ading..but i wanna hear from you also.Is that okay?Hmmmmmmm..... as anak touch said....ading juvans...please enlighten us :)
wen ngamin juvans, apay ngamin nga dimo payla ibaga? enlighten us please...

juvans where are you? we're ready to listen. :wink:

[Leona]

Juvans,

Come on, tell us. I seldom read the bible, I must admit. I can only recite some popular verses.

[SuperGlow]

JuVans,

We are all waiting.....

[juVans]

Sorry for keeping you apo Inolers hanging in the air. Funny, hehe.


The clue is given. I have provided the head start. It?s up to you apo Inolers to come up with the conclusion.

Isn?t it more fun if you have to discover it by yourself rather than being spoonfed by me?

Besides, our Creator already equipped us with wonderful mind. We used it almost in our daily life to quest for the ultimate truth. Our intelligent reasoning enables us to resent what is unacceptable and follow what is plausible. Hey, take advantage of this or else you are wasting the purpose of your brain.

And apo Touch, if you know the answer, there is no need for me to say it to you again. Think of it like solving for a mathematical problem, the approach we implement may be different, (e.g. 1+1=2 or 3-1=2) but the end result is the same. That is, if you follow the given procedure accordingly.


:mrgreen: :wink: :D